First President of Ukraine: Evil in Belarus Shall Not Pass

The Belarusian people will handle the dictatorship.

The first president of independent Ukraine Leonid Kravchuk commented on the situation in Belarus in his interview to Radio Svaboda.

"He believes Russia will always help him, not Belarus".

- Mr President, the last time we talked on 13 August. It was a period of harsh repression in Belarus. You were very emotional in your call to Aliaksandr Lukashenka to stop the violence and the bloodshed. Almost four months have passed, more than 30 thousand Belarusians have gone through prisons; more than one hundred and forty political prisoners; human rights defenders say there are dead people; no criminal cases of torture, excessive and unreasonable violence by law enforcers have been initiated. As a person and the first president of Ukraine, how do you assess the situation in the neighbouring country?

- I am sad to see human and political tragedy in Belarus. I know Belarus very well. I used to go there often during Soviet times. We had profound and friendly relations with Belarus, its then leadership. There was also the Belovezha meeting with Mr Stanislau Shushkevich in 1991. Then and now, I took positively. However, the things I saw... I am well aware of the dictatorial and administrative style of Mr Lukashenka, his upbringing on the principles of totalitarianism rather than democracy, freedom and international norms. However, I did not expect such an inhuman attitude to Belarusians from a Belarusian brought up in Belarus. I cannot stand it. But it's the fact.

I think Lukashenka has turned into power in 26 years. There is no human left in him. He is made of power and cannot imagine his life without it. This nature makes him lose human nature, leaving only the administrative aspect. He treats people as a source for control, not as citizens who need respect.

Russia makes its impact as well. He believed and believes that Russia will always help him, not Belarus. He takes advantage of this. These two things have turned him into a leader who has lost the human qualities, kindness and respect, even compassion for people. I feel depressed. As a person who knows Belarus, as a Ukrainian, as a neighbour, I would like Belarus to develop democratically, live in the present time and not in the past. The world is rapidly changing from a global perspective, a broad democratic perspective. If an emergency occurs somewhere in the democratic world, people get rid of it quickly. It is how democratic institutions, principles and norms of international law work.

"Now it is useless to call Lukashenka to something".

- Do you see any point in urging Aliaksandr Lukashenka and his law enforcers to stop the violence now? What international instruments can be involved in such a situation? What can Ukraine, people and authorities do?

- I think it is useless to urge Lukashenka to do something. Apart from administrative dictatorship, he has fear and desire to punish those who dared to oppose him. All the above mentioned gives no reason to believe that he can be convincible. I think the only thing can work here (which cannot be expected) - Russia should officially declare and deny any assistance to Lukashenka. However, I believe it will not happen, and Putin will support him.

That's why we need the joint efforts of the international community and European countries, including Ukraine. He shows a negative and painful reaction to it. He often takes negative steps towards Ukraine, although we have a very respectful attitude towards Belarus and Belarusians. Now many Belarusians, journalists, politicians appear on Ukrainian TV channels. We communicate with them, feel their aspirations. We see people who escaped this inhuman regime. Only joint efforts matter. I mean there must be pressure on Russia in parallel with the pressure on Belarus. Pressure on Russia can also help Ukraine to stop the war in Donbas and build a peaceful life in all regions. The world community must act decisively, because these hotbeds of anti-democracy, conflicts that Russia instigates, are very dangerous not only for Ukraine and Belarus but Europe and the whole world.

"It requires a rigid approach"

- Speaking about the events in Belarus, many Ukrainian observers draw parallels with the Ukrainian Maidan and say that if as many people had taken to the streets in Ukraine as in Belarus in the second half of August, there would have been nothing left of the conditional Ukrainian Okrestina. However, the Belarusians have chosen a different and long way of a peaceful revolution. What do you think of it?

- If there had been a democratic man in power in Belarus and Belarusians got tired of him, this way would have been the most correct. As they say in Ukraine, "let it be worse but different anyway". In this case, it will not happen. It was a pleasure to watch women with flowers. However, how could those frowers make the difference? The people in power held automatic rifles. I consider a rigid position is required here. The politicians of Belarus, the presidential candidates should address the world community and fundamentally raise the issue.

It requires a rigid approach. Of course, no one wants the Belarusian people to suffer because of sanctions and other measures. What if this is the only way? One should not let the situation to accept Lukashenka's scenario. He declared people had to tolerate him for one more term and he would not run for another cadence. He says it today. Tomorrow, he can easily change his mind. Power has become a drug for him. It's a very dangerous thing.

I think the Belarusian people will handle it. Our path is more revolutionary. However, it gave us no perfect result either. It caused conflict in many areas. Russia took advantage of it and annexed the Crimea. There are various approaches. Nevertheless, one way or another, the result will be positive because time and the world are different. People with totalitarian aspirations are like an odd bird. People do not take them. After all, people think differently. The world has changed. New facts have appeared, sometimes unpleasant ones. However, they do not aim at inflicting physical damage or even death caused by violence.

"Berkut fighters shot at people as well as these 'people in black'

- Nowadays, Belarusian authorities and law enforcement agencies are often compared with fascism concerning peaceful protesters. Your father, who fought the Nazis, is buried in Belarus. What is your reaction when people in Belarus call the riot police or other law enforcers fascists, chasteners?

- It is an epithet. These people are not the cause but the consequence. Many people in the system have got used to it. They need to be isolated. But the major part of law enforcers people obeys an order.

- How do Berkut fighters differ from "people in black" in Belarus?

- There is no great difference. Berkut fighters shot at people as well as these "people in black". They are subject to a special technique of recruitment. Lukashenka and the team need special people. They study them. I understand there is an oath. However, our Constitution stipulates that we cannot obey criminal orders and laws, but only those that serve the interests of the country, society and the people.

"It is unlikely he can live a normal life if he stays in Belarus"

- Four former presidents are living in Ukraine - you, Leonid Kuchma, Viktor Yushchenko and Petro Poroshenko. Everyone plays an important role in Ukrainian society. Another former president, Viktor Yanukovych, is hiding in Russia. Do you think Aliaksandr Lukashenka still has a chance to enjoy the honourable and respected position of the former president or is there only a path of Viktor Yanukovych left to follow?

- It is unlikely he can live a normal life if he stays in Belarus. There may be less hostility somewhere in the countryside. However, an active, urban society will not be able to tolerate the man who has brought so much misfortune... Things he has been doing lately, clinging to power contrary to common sense, and the sacrifices as a result of his desire for power will not be forgiven. It will be difficult for him to live in this environment. He will have to leave Belarus.

"It's not the Belarusians' fault but the authorities'"

- You currently head the Minsk Group for settlement of the situation in Donbas. You have already announced the inexpediency of its location in Minsk and want to move to Vienna. How is the situation with this group now?

- There is no place for peace, democracy and freedom in such a country now, although I do not identify Lukashenka with the country. Given the bloody, dramatic, anti-human and anti-democratic events, I do not think there can be a platform for humanitarian and universal decision-making for peace, freedom and democracy. Ukraine will look for another platform and deliver its heartfelt thanks to Belarus and the Belarusian people for this opportunity. Unfortunately, it is not the Belarusians' fault but the authorities'. We assume the authorities' influence on these processes.

"I understand Belarusian pensioners"

- A few hours before our interview, a march of pensioners in Minsk ended and the arrests took place. What could you say to pensioners, all Belarusian people who, despite repression and threats, continue to express their civic position?

- I am quite old. Early next year I will be 87. I have experienced the Polish, German and Moscow occupations. Now I am going through a very tough situation when part of the Ukrainian territory is occupied by Russia. I have a deep radical protest inside me against violence, the inhumane, hostile attitude of the leader and the authorities towards people. Of course, I understand Belarusian pensioners. That is why I have voiced my age.

It takes much internal understanding to fight for the future... They realize life is not eternal and have come to protect Belarusians, children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren. They have come sacrificing their health because both the coronavirus and their strength are not so good.

I would like to ask all Belarusians to listen to these people, look into their faces, ask why they have come. They are there to protect life with the rest of their will and life experience. I want to address all Belarusians. I do want you to succeed without bloodshed. I cannot say "completely peacefully" because blood has already been spilt.

On Sunday we commemorated Holodomor Day. Millions of Ukrainians died. I have calculated that 12 million Ukrainians died during those years. It is more than the entire Belarusian nation. You can imagine what we feel. That's why we understand your sacrifices. I don't want it to end in bloodshed. I ask Belarusians to listen to the voice of reason, believe in the good, but do not believe in the authorities. They are no longer reliable. The authorities have betrayed you.

One cannot exercise the law against those who broke it and turned it to a habitual at. Law and good do not apply to a person who commits lawlessness and evil. Evil must be stopped. Today, the authorities headed by Lukashenka are evil.