"Perhaps, They Are Being Forced Into Cooperation With Special Services"

Arrests of journalists may relate to reports of Lukashenka's stroke.

Editor-in-chief of Charter97.org Natallia Radzina, journalists Aliaksandra Dynko and Liubou Luniova discussed with Hanna Sous, presenter on Radio Svaboda, both detentions of editors of tut.by, realt.by, BelaPAN, newspaper "Belarusians and The Market" in the so-called "BelTA case" and the role of women in the Belarusian journalism.

Hanna Sous: Colleagues, the night of August 8 was really disturbing for me. I guess you felt the same. Maryna Zolatava, Tatstsyana Karovenkava, Ullyana Babayed, Anna Kaltyhina, Halina Ulasik, Jauheniya Berazyuk, Anna Yermachonak, Dzmitry Bobryk and Andrei Syerada are our detained colleagues from tut.by and BelaPAN.

Their names are mentioned on my friends' news feed on Facebook. They are involved in the case known as "BelTA case". They are accused of unauthorized access to paid subscriptions of BelTA, public information agency.

Today I offer you to discuss defendants in the case - after all, almost all of them are women. Is this a mere incident? Can it describe the situation in independent Belarusian journalism? Aliaksandra, what do you think?

Aliaksandra Dynko: I saw the survey conducted by the Belarusian Association of Journalists (BAJ) several years ago. A Swedish organization held it in many countries, including Belarus. It notes that 70% of Belarusian journalists are women. Thus, Belarus is not the only country with such figures. This is the worldwide tendency.

Research workers say that feminization takes place on the background of declining salaries, lack of opportunities for career building. In general, it happens when a profession gets less attractive. In fact, there are lots of journalists in Belarus; they earn average money and the career progress is quite conditional. Yes, the vast majority of people involved in journalism are women.

I see how my female friends turn to IT, advertising, marketing. At the same time, the Journalist Department at the Belarusian State University is still prestigious; the majority of students there are girls.

My experience shows there is no great feminization in journalism. I have many men among my colleagues. When you go to work you see both men and women, that's why surveys are more reliable than your observations.

Hanna Sous: Aliaksandra, thank you very much. Natallia, I've just read the post of former political prisoner Mikalai Statkevich on Facebook. He writes that "the first night in a prison ward is always a nightmare for young, intelligent women. Who and why has decided to bring journalists of BelaPAN and tut.by through the prison hell?"

Natallia, was the first night spent in the KGB remand prison a nightmare for you? What is your reaction and your opinion about the current situation?

Natallia Radzina: Let me first answer a previous question. I can't completely agree that most of journalists in Belarus are women; the editorial office of Charter97.org mostly consists of men.

As for my first night in the KGB remand prison, I can't say that it was a nightmare, because I was ready for it.

I recall that before my arrest the editorial office of Charter97.org was searched several times within a year. I was constantly called in for interviews; as soon as founder of the website Aleh Bebenin was murdered, I realized that everything might happen.

It was really hard. After all, I was beaten on December 19, 2010 on the Square. My health state was really bad. I had brain concussion and prison guards denied me medical assistance. Although emergency physicians insisted on MRI-type brain scan.

I am concerned about my colleagues, I can understand what they feel. It may seem that an independent journalist should be ready for everything, but still it's hard to get how you can be arrested, because you just tell and write about real things.

I'd like to point out another moment in the story. Why is it stated that journalists are detained for three days? My experience shows that they are usually jailed for 15 years. It happened to me and all political prisoners.

If we talk about a criminal case, it's never said that "it's only for three days". I happened like it only once in May of 2010, when activists of the Tell the Truth campaign were detained.

Hanna Sous: Thank you, Natallia. I'd like to quote our colleague Anastasia Shamrei. Last night she wrote on Facebook that "at least five Belarusian journalists will spend the night in prison, most likely some of them spend more nights there. I thought that we might get rid of all real crimes in the country. No way. 41 thousand crimes are registered by the MIA in the first half of 2018. Perhaps, they are all closed now. But the paid authorization on BelTA, news of Lukashenka and milk yield should also be the part of it." Lyuba, I know you are concerned. What do you think about defendants in the "BelTA case"?

Liubou Luniova: I'm not surprised that women are defendants in the case; there are more women than men involved in Belarusian journalism. It's true about newspapers, such a situation is observed in Komsomolskaya Pravda. I guess there are only two men in the team. The similar situation is observed in Narodnaya Volya. It's a common trend. Some Swedish editions can serve as an example. The number of men and women in journalism there is roughly the same.

However, the detention of women is noteworthy. We know that they wrote little about police lawless actions. For example, Tatstsyana Karovenkava covered international events, visits.

First detentions looked weird, but the situation in the country is that nothing seems surprising.

Hanna Sous: We have been working in journalism for a while. We covered many arrests, criminal cases, including those related to mass media. Aliaksandra, what is the peculiarity of last detentions? What do they mean? Is there anything new in attempts to control mass media?

Aliaksandra Dynko: You know, I would compare this situation with one occurred last March. It is aimed at intimidation. You remember young policemen wearing full-dress uniform and resisting pensioners on Minsk streets.

Then everyone presented there were detained: the young, the old, journalists. It was a clear evidence that they did not care about people. Now women who have children and parents are detained. It is clear that concerns do not contribute to better health state. This signal of the authorities is indicative - it will happen to everyone who resists us.

I'd like to point out this mere claim against mass media. This paid subscription of BelTA involves only 15-minute advantage in access to information, then it becomes public. This is so insignificant; however, it has served as a reason for special services to get access to the largest portal of the country.

This way or another work of tut.by is paralyzed; all heads of departments are detained. This is a meaningful claim against freedom of speech.

I will cite only one example which proves advantages for public media. Yesterday I arrived to the building of the Investigative Committee to meet journalists after interrogations. There were journalists of ОНТ, НТВ, Belarusian Television. They were invited to a special press-conference to learn more about the criminal case.

No representative of independent media was invited. Public media came up with different scenarios and it was shown on the Belarusian TV. The information presented played into the hands of the authorities.

Just pay attention to people detained. I've already mentioned that they are the leading staff of tut.by and BelaPAN. Many people say that ministers, "deputies" try to avoid questions of Tatstsyana Karovenkava. Why was she detained in BelaPAN? I guess there is a resistance of different structures. All international officials, visitors who arrive in Belarus know Tatstsyana.

It turns out that on the one hand, foreigners are offered 30-day visa free stay in Belarus; on the other hand, journalists are detained and jailed. Traditions of totalitarianism live. I think no improvement is observed in political and social spheres. Everyday the situation is getting worse.

Hanna Sous: Thank you very much. Natasha, please tell me, taking into account the reasons that Aliaksandra has touched upon,if the information published on tut.by and BelaPAN could lately become a push? What is your version?

Natallia Radzina: It is surprising why this time they started to persecute tut.by and BelaPAN. Because, it is quite clear that these are not opposition media and not even independent ones. Tut.by has always been Yury Zisser's business project, he was actively supported by the authorities, he had a good "backing". This is absolutely understandable to everyone. BelaPAN is also a moderate media, which rather gives official information than information about the activities of the opposition or civil society.

In any case, the trend is very disturbing and obvious. Like I said, when Charter-97 was blocked, that when there is no proper solidarity with the blocked sites, then the repression expands, and it did start to happen immediately.

Straight after Charter-97 was blocked, amendments were made to the "media law", and the censorship on the Internet increased. Criminal cases were initiated against independent bloggers and journalists of the Belsat TV channel, Radio Racyja, whose editorial offices are now in Poland, were massively prosecuted.

In this situation, I want to emphasize once again how important solidarity is. As those journalists, who are in prison now, did not demonstrate solidarity with Charter97.org. This applies to both tut.by and BelaPAN. Some of my colleagues, on the contrary, rejoiced at the fact of blocking and we mustn't repeat these mistakes.

We are all in the same position. Yes, we all have different degrees of freedom, if we compare Charter-97 and BelaPAN. But all of us, including tut.by, are united by one very important factor, we are all pro-Belarusian media, which maintain the stance of the Belarusian independent democratic country.

Today I again call all the colleagues for solidarity and I want to mention another important issue. Liuba wants to know why those particular journalists were arrested. I will remind you about my experience.

When I was in the KGB jail, they tried to recruit me. And this is a very important question: why did they take women? Perhaps, now they are putting pressure on them, trying to make them cooperate with the secret services. Why? Perhaps, Yury Zisser or Ales Lipai had crossed the line, tried to play their own game. We do not know this, but such an option can not be ruled out.

Remember, recently an article appeared in the Washington Post, where the former editor of Euroradio Vital Zybliuk says that every independent media in Belarus has a curator from the special services, whom you have to meet and talk to. A bizarre situation!

In 2012, European Belarus coordinator Dzmitry Bandarenka was talking about situations, when the special services actively influenced over independent journalists using blackmail. They forced them to cooperate and exerted pressure on the projects. There was direct censorship. This is also a very important issue that needs to be discussed. What is happening now with the journalists? What will happen next with these media? What is the reason for today's attack on these conservative media?

Hanna Sous: Thank you, Natallia, you have asked very important questions. We will try to find answers to them. Liuba, please, tell us how you see the reason for today's detentions.

Liubou Luniova: At first glance, they seem to be some kind of nonsense. It is clear that authorities have used BelTA for their own purposes. What are their goals? Can the authorities paralyze the work of independent media? The practice shows that no. Perhaps, they wanted to look at the journalists' personal computers. Perhaps, they are looking for the sources of information.

There is another point which hasn't been mentioned. It may happen that the IC is "advertising" itself in this way. Like, look how we can work and what amounts of work we do. They even went to Tatsiana Karavenkava's summer residence and searched it in front of the neighbors. Can you imagine the arrival of a paddy wagon with security officials to a village?

This reminds an imitation of teeming activity. Perhaps, they want to self-promote and in order to do this as good as possible, they decided to detain journalists, because that would cause some resonance. All the media would write about it.

In fact, our colleagues are now in custody, and they have parents, children, friends, dogs and cats . That violence in broad daylight was, of course, absolutely unexpected. But who cares about this in our country? Of course, we need to show solidarity, we must be together today, regardless of the place of work.

There is one more interesting point. Yesterday, journalists, operators were standing near the tut.by and BelaPAN offices. Policemen had not nearly taken out the equipment, which was allegedly being taken for a check, when the news was shown on ONT. They said that journalists had been detained, they mentioned the Belarusian Science - a portal used by the staff of the Academy of Sciences, spoke about tut.by and BelaPAN and gave the names of everyone, who had been taken into custody.

That same Investigative Committee is always the first one to get hysterical, so that the names of people, who are the suspects in a criminal case, are not revealed before the trial. Not even before the trial, but until the verdict is delivered.

And this time, the people were detained, and in two hours, their surnames were reported . Well, what is that?

Whatever it was, the main thing now is to be in solidarity with them. It is necessary not only to write appeals to the prosecutor's office, the IC, but to wheel out international structures.

Hanna Sous: I would like to talk about another gender-based aspect. Actually, the BelTA director, Iryna Akulovich, reported against the journalists. I want to name some women at the head of such very significant structures. For example, Lukashenka's press service is also run by a woman - Natallia Eismant, Natallia Piatkevich used to occupy this post. The number of women in power in the propaganda structures is gradually increasing. However, if you look at the leading state media, mostly male leaders head them. How would you, Aliaksandra, evaluate the role of women in real decision-making in journalism in all the media?

Aliaksandra Dynko: I believe that Belarus is still a country with totalitarian and authoritarian traditions that are continuously connected with the patriarchate. According to this idea, the boss is a mister in a suit who can force, control and shout.

A woman here can be an editor-in-chief, carrying the can of responsibility, non-standardized working day, and, if anything crops up, she can step up to the plate, the buck stops with her, but the final decision is made by the man. This applies not only to journalism, but to all professional spheres.

When a woman with a different style of behavior, education becomes the director of EPAM, it is cool, but if a lady in a pencil skirt is appointed to manage the public service, then this is only a function and this has nothing to do with gender equality.

Hanna Sous: Thank you. Liuba, Natallia, Aliaksandra - you all have worked with hot topics, for example, at rallies.

Natallia, when you were still in Belarus, you could be seen at every rally. You were at the trials, at the hottest events. You have the editorial experience of working at the Charter-97 website under hard pressure, under the blocking. A large number of women work in hot spots, covering the most dangerous topics. Natallia, why is this happening? Do women have any advantages here, and what is the danger for them?

Natallia Radzina: It does not make a difference here. It seems to me that a lot of women and men work in difficult conditions. Sasha is probably right, our women always take more responsibility. They are often totally devoted to what they do.

Today, I would rather focus on what is happening to our journalists. Why were they arrested?

It is important to understand a few things. Today's arrests of journalists might have something to do, first, with the news of last week that Lukashenka had a stroke. This may be the authorities' response to the fact that the media actively covered that news and the authorities saw how the readers, that is, the Belarusians, reacted to that.

It became clear that the majority of the country's population hates Lukashenka and is looking forward to his end. That could cause the detentions, because the news appeared in all the media, including tut.by and BelaPAN.

Secondly, I have a feeling that that could happen on the verge of a serious political tempest in Belarus. In general, those actions on the final mopping-up of the information space in Belarus can give ammunition to Putin's regime in Russia. As we know from the example of Ukraine, before the occupation of its territory, the information space had been cleared and pressure had been put on the media. This is also a point that can not be omitted and must be discussed.

Hanna Sous: Thank you, Natallia. Liuba, what would you like to add to conclude our discussion?

Liubou Luniova: I want to say that we must remember that our colleagues are behind bars and we need to think about how to deal with BelTA. We have not heard of any BelTA journalists asking forgiveness or making any public statements, not even in social networks, in front of the relatives of those women, who were imprisoned.

This is something that worries all of us, but we must show solidarity and do our best to get our colleagues released as soon as possible.