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Natallia Radzina: There Are Many Questions To Funds And Tsikhanouskaya’s Office

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Natallia Radzina: There Are Many Questions To Funds And Tsikhanouskaya’s Office
NATALLIA RADZINA

Families of political prisoners were left without help.

Editor-in-Chief of the Charter97.org website Natallia Radzina discussed the situation with Belarusian political prisoners and assistance for them on the air of the Belsat TV channel.

The Charter97.org website publishes the text version of the conversation.

— “Thousands of people in prison today are experiencing horrendous treatment and torture. We know only a part of what happens to a few of them,” writes Natallia Radzina, Editor-in-Chief of Charter97.org, who is already in our studio, on her Facebook page. Natallia, good evening and welcome!

— Good evening!

— Indeed, almost three years have passed since Pavel Seviarynets and Mikalai Statkevich were detained. It didn't get better, it only got worse. And in this situation, thousands of Belarusians became hostages. Today, the new number, one and a half thousand, is the official number of political prisoners from the Viasna human rights center, and there may be many times more. Why is this happening, when almost three years since the beginning of the mass repression the situation is getting worse every day?

— Firstly, there are 8 to 10 thousand political prisoners in Belarus, you need to understand this, because the scale of repressions in Belarus is huge. Human rights activists, including Viasna, are simply not able to count the number of political prisoners in Belarus, and there are many questions about the criteria they use in assessing people who are thrown behind bars today.

Therefore, there are much more political prisoners than human rights activists say. The conditions in which they are kept are, of course, appalling. Now we are very concerned about the fate of Mikalai Statkevich, because for more than 70 days there has been no news from him, no letters, no calls, no meetings. Meetings with the lawyer, with his relatives are prohibited. And those lawyers who, as we know, worked with Mikalai Statkevich, do not say anything about him. And it seems to me that there are no independent lawyers in Belarus at all today, because they are very frightened by the arrests of their colleagues and do not tell anything either to the relatives of political prisoners, or journalists, or human rights activists.

Therefore, I believe that today it is necessary to conduct an active campaign abroad in order to help Belarusian political prisoners, we must speak loudly about them and hold mass protests in the countries where we are. The families of political prisoners need help, because the situation here is also terrible. I talk to the families of many political prisoners and they say they don't get any help. Some are not even able today to make a parcel to prison for their loved ones, because many of them have lost their jobs. They were fired because their relatives are in prison.

— Funds periodically organize fundraising to support this or that particular political prisoner.

— There are a lot of questions I would like to ask these funds and Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya's office, because I know that people don't get help. Where does the money raised by the diaspora and given to BySol and other foundations go? People do not receive this assistance in Belarus today. And the situation is really catastrophic.

— Maybe people do not apply or are afraid to apply for this help?

— There are specific lists of political prisoners. You can find out about those who are not on the list. If you raise money, you must develop mechanisms for how to transfer this money to the country. We are not going to talk live now about what these mechanisms are, but they do exist. You know, we live in Poland now and I talked to a lot of Solidarity trade union activists, they told me how their families, while they were in prison, lived in communist Poland. They said: “Our families never lived well while we were in prison”.

— Because they were helped and saved.

— Because they were helped and saved. And you tell me, was it easier in communist Poland than now in Belarus? And this help came from abroad. Of course, there was solidarity between people, but help came from outside. Therefore, this is a big question: why is there no help for the families of political prisoners? Why is there no help for refugees? Look what's happening to the refugees.

— Natallia, why do you think that rallies, if they take place abroad, in front of embassies, in front of diplomatic missions, can somehow affect the situation? Because we know that Poland tried to negotiate with the Lukashenka regime, Polish Foreign Minister Zbigniew Rau stated this, but the regime rejected all proposals.

— Once again, this is the responsibility of the diaspora and those political centers that are located abroad today. First, as I have already said, help for the families of political prisoners and help for refugees is needed. It must be. Secondly, we need to work with the governments of the countries where we are. Who, if not us, will put pressure on them? Why then these trips of Tsikhanouskaya around Europe and the world, if there have been no sanctions against the Lukashenka regime for more than a year?

— In your opinion, should democratic forces put pressure on the governments of these countries?

— Both democratic forces and diasporas should put pressure on governments. Where are the protest actions? Tell me please. Why are there no mass protests in the countries of the European Union and the USA? They need to be organized. Who should organize them? Those people who call themselves leaders. Who should raise the issue of sanctions against the Lukashenka regime at meetings with the presidents and prime ministers of the EU countries and the United States? Tsikhanouskaya and company. Why don't they do it?

— Well, she has been raising the topic of sanctions ...

— Well, apparently, she has been raising it in such a way that she couldn’t raise it in the end. She has been raising this topic but alas, for more than a year there have been no sanctions against the Lukashenka regime. The human rights situation has only worsened, people are being killed in prisons, and now nuclear missiles are being transported, but there are no sanctions? Moreover, now more and more EU countries are in favor of lifting sanctions from the Belarusian potash.

— Yes, there are such lobbyists in the European Union.

— This is a very terrible thing, because the Lukashenka regime will receive huge money for its repressive apparatus.

By the way, Latushka's team is trying, together with investigative journalists, to uncover these schemes for circumventing sanctions. Also, Pavel Latushka answered your critical post of yesterday on the air for us. Let's listen to a short recording of his message and return to the conversation.

Pavel Latushka: Whenever there is an opportunity, even a rare one, to convey the information about what is happening in Belarus, then this is good. If this is done by Natallia Radzina and all our other supporters, because we are fighting for the same thing, then we will be much stronger. Therefore, we appeal to the Belarusians, and I also urge Natallia Radzina to sign the relevant appeal so that she, as a well-known, highly respected politician, can meet with the ambassadors of those countries. Every day I meet with politicians from European countries, with ambassadors.

— Natallia, are you ready to respond to Latushka's proposals?

— You know, I do meet with such people. For example, yesterday I spoke with the Polish Ambassador to Belarus Artur Michalski, asked the diplomats in Minsk to meet with the wife of Mikalaj Statkevich and somehow manage to put pressure on the authorities to find out about the fate of Mikalaj and what is happening to him.

Whenever I have the opportunity, I meet with European politicians and raise the issue of Belarusian political prisoners and sanctions. We also do this on the Charter97.org website. As for Pavel Latushka's proposal, so far, unfortunately, I see nothing but demagogy. And if there really are efforts from that side, then I will only welcome them.

— There is even a special representative in the cabinet who is responsible for social policy, including for helping political prisoners.

— Lukashenka also has many representatives who are responsible for many issues. But what result do we see? There is no result. Well, I have a question for this representative of Tsikhanouskaya.

Please tell us what to do with people who are now leaving abroad, fleeing from Belarus because of the threat of arrest, who cannot work. These are pensioners, people with serious illnesses, people who cannot work physically because they are already 75-80 years old. What should they do now? Many people have major health problems, chronic diseases. They don't get any help. These people contact me. And I don't have any special funds. But I'm looking for money to help them.

— Maybe it is worth organizing such a fund for the elderly who leave Belarus.

— Exactly. For veterans of the Belarusian Resistance. For the elderly who are forced to leave Belarus. What should they do? My Polish friends from the Peace House in Warsaw say there is a woman, a former member of the Coordinating Council. She had a stroke and no one needs her. The Poles help her, but she cannot even walk, and there is no aid. And then why these representatives on social issues, if they do not even deal with these cases?

— Do you think that there really is no solidarity between Belarusians abroad?

— First of all, solidarity should be with people in Belarus. And in this we must be united. Why did we leave? You need to ask yourself this question. For what? I can answer why I left Belarus.

— It was very long ago. In 2011.

— Not so very long ago. Yes, after the 2010 elections, I had to flee Belarus because I was threatened with 15 years in prison. I left after my imprisonment in the KGB jail. It was hard to run, but I did it because I knew that I had to tell the world what was happening in Belarus. I knew that I could not create independent media within the country, that they would not let me do it, because either I would work under the control of the KGB, or I would go to jail. And I left to tell the truth about what was happening then in the KGB prison where I was, how political prisoners were beaten in this prison.

— Now, by the way, former political prisoner Vital Zhuk spoke about the conditions in the colony. The apartments of his parents, his in-laws were searched. They even persecute relatives. Natallia, we know that many political prisoners have their own “godparents”, relatively speaking, guardians in different European structures and parliaments. But we do not see their actions, some kind of support. Perhaps this is done covertly. What do you know about it? Why do we not see the work of these people in order for political prisoners to be released?

— For these people to work, you have to work with them. They need to be reminded of what is happening to the people they care for. And if there is no connection between human rights organizations, the same office of Tsikhanouskaya, with these guardians, if they do not write to them daily, what is happening with the political prisoners in Belarus, whom they guard, of course, they will not do anything, because they have a lot of their own work to do.

I know this because we, former political prisoners, also had guardians, our friends, our human rights activists, our relatives always worked with these guardians — they told them everything. What if they are not told anything? Nothing would work.

— Speaking about the release of political prisoners today, please tell me: are there any other levers of influence on Lukashenka apart from the sanctions we are talking about?

— First of all, of course, these are sanctions that need to be strengthened. The fact that there are no such sanctions for more than a year is a big mistake of the West. Moreover, we know that these sanctions are bypassed, and even the investigations carried out by journalists are the tip of the iceberg, but in fact there are large volumes of sanctioned goods coming from Belarus to Europe, from Europe to Belarus, to Russia through Belarus. And if the sanctions that have already been introduced are not implemented, and there are no new sanctions, then it will be impossible to achieve anything from this regime. Therefore, only increased sanctions. This is a top priority.

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