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“International Trade Unions Slapped Lukashenka's Face For The First Time”

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“International Trade Unions Slapped Lukashenka's Face For The First Time”

The best solution is to throw the dictator out along with Putin.

The regime has arrested leaders of Belarusian independent trade unions. Today the trade unions are themselves on the verge of being closed down. What will be the reaction of international workers' associations to what is going on in our country? Charter97.org spoke about it with activist of the International Trade Union Confederation, representative of the Federation of Dutch Trade Unions (FNV) Wim Dekkers.

— Could you tell a bit about yourself?

— 45 years ago, when I was working at a company in the Netherlands, I saw an explosion of a chemical factory 100 meters away in front of my eyes. All glasses in the building where I was were shattered. This image is engraved in my mind till this day. So, I decided to do further education and started to work with the trade unions on safety and health.

Now I am on pension, but before that I did a lot of work for Belarus for more than 15 years. We made books on education for people at the workplace and translated them to Russian: a book for work with chemicals, a book for working being a pregnant woman. Workers described to us what the problems were, and we made that part of our training. But after 2020 election, it was not possible anymore for us to come to Belarus to do training

— According to your feeling, at what point did workers in Belarus start to face remarkable pressure from the regime?

— The pressure was always there, but it increased in 1994 (I know people who visited Belarus back then). By the moment I came there (in 2006) there was regularly heavy intimidation, big and small. Independent trade unions in Belarus work for social protection of the workers. And I work with the trade unions in Belarus on that.

For example, every time when we went from the hotel to the training, police were following us in cars. They knew our exact location from the first moment all the time. They didn't do anything, but it was very frightening. People from the trade union, we were working with, came one day to the kitchen of hotel, another day they came through the front door. Every time it was not like the day before. They changed mobile phones. The situation was very terrifying, but it was a good feeling to have people from independent unions alongside.

— Are there any differences between Belarusian workers and Dutch workers?

— First, I thought what is good in the Netherlands that is also good for Belarus, but that is not working because of those terrible laws that they have in Belarus. If feels as if they change the law every week. It is a very important what they now do is that law on terrorism. They say that trade union on Grodno Azot are terrorist organization (and there is a death penalty in Belarus). So, they are doing terrible things with the law, and that's not happing in the Netherlands.

When you are on strike in the Netherlands you have protection of the law. You can go on strike if you do the right thing. In Belarus each new decree made it more and more difficult for the workers. In Europe, if you destroy things then you go in prison, but you don't get arrested if you are on strike. In Belarus, if you go on strike, you are taken to the prison by the regime. And after the election, it became worse.

In Belarus there is also a different culture. The family culture, young people vs old people is not like in the Netherlands.

— Do you think that young people in Belarus listen to the older generation?

— I cannot speak for the entire Belarusian society, but at the places where I've been I've heard it many times when starting to talk about safety and health in the companies. Some young people said, "We want this good situation, safety and health. We don't want to die like our parents."

Here in Netherlands, when people are working then families at home are waiting for them to come back every evening safe and unharmed. I struggle with the problems in the Netherlands every day for 45 years. But they are not such big problems as in Belarus. We have negotiations about the salary. But in Belarus no one helps the workers.

Young people in Belarus don't want to work anymore with old Soviet machines. This situation in Belarus is like it was in 1920s in the Netherlands. I was in companies in Belarus, were I saw a very bad situation where you get ill, you can die. That happens, and they don't learn from those incidents. There is no process to make things better for the people.

When we came to Belarus with such a view about safety, the people said, "We don't want anymore what our parents went through." The parents have good intentions and they deserve compliments for their work but there are no changes.

And Lukashenka doesn't want changes because the money are flowing in — he wants to keep that. He is not investing into health and safety. And the people don't know. They get no education. They get from a state trade union a one week vacation in a year. And this is it! Lukashenka is the state union and the state union is Lukashenka.

But for me, a safety and health is a sort of a lifestyle. And what trade unions must do are very difficult issues translated for the people such that they can understand. That is also what we do in the training. And yes, the culture about this is very important, but young people see the Internet and see how it can be better. But now Lukashenka is taking away the Internet also. So, people might become like slaves for the regime, and they don't know it.

But, of course, I'm a guy that can speak out. I am in a safe environment in the Netherlands.

— Recently, there have been new arrests among the leaders of the independent trade unions; Prosecutor General sent a filing to the Supreme Court suggesting the complete closure of a number of trade unions. In your view, how should the major international trade unions react to these developments?

— This wave of arrests and the recent news have touched international trade union hard. They wrote responses, there have been huge reactions. And I am very proud of that solidarity.

But, on the other hand, yesterday I had a solidarity meeting of the ITUC (International Trade Union Confederation). Also by the UN building in Geneva, there was a solidarity action. I held that same solidarity action in Amsterdam (I try and try to get more people involved). And, if you look at the reaction of the international trade unions, there were not a lot of people there. In my place, there were 70 people — in Geneva there were 30-35 people, while trade unionists were inside the building.

The changes in Belarus must come from the inside Belarus because letters are very good and sanctions are even better. But protest inside Belarus is very important, but very-very-very difficult.

So, it is a very difficult process. I try to do my best to communicate with all my networks here in the Netherlands about this. This is what we can do at this moment — to maintain the pressure. And the change must come from the inside.

— Is there a feasible way of demanding of the exclusion the pro-government state trade unions from the ILO (International Labor Organization)?

— This is very difficult and political. In the ILO, there are 165 countries, and a big part of this countries must say, state trade must get out of the ILO — this is very difficult. The step before is IndustriALL.

My trade union sent letters to throw state trade union out of IndustriALL. Norwegian trade unions have also sent letters and the German trade unions are thinking about this. They have a meeting in the ILO about a document what they are making now about the situation after the arrest of the union leaders. This is a very important. This is the first time that I got so far within the ILO.

This process took one year. It is as very difficult administrative process, but if you don't do that, other countries, like Hungary, say, "No, no. They stay because the process is not good." So, we are starting the process to get them out. You cannot say, "Well, go out!" - and they go out, but state union see that Norway and Germany say, "Out with them!", - and that is a smash in the face of Lukashenka, first smash from trade unions. Maybe, after this smash he had started to think about forbidding the independent trade unions maybe it comes because of that.

Lukashenka is a farmer, but he thinks not only think about potatoes, like in 1994. He thinks about all the money he gets every year. Belaruskali, for example, used to make a lot of money.

— What do you think of attempts to unblock sanctions against Belaruskali in exchange for the transit of Ukrainian grain through Belarus?

António Guterres is the highest functionary inside of the United nations. But European Union has imposed new sanctions on Belaruskali on the 3rd of June. Potash from Belarus cannot be accepted in the EU: in the Netherlands, Belgium, France. Sanctions against Belaruskali came not only because Russian aggression in Ukraine, but also because of the elimination of the trade unions.

It is possible that politicians want to lift sanctions from the regime, but the democratic process, thing which we are doing, is going on and it will not stop.

We, as independent trade unions in Europe, also see what happened in Africa: food shortages for people. And it is very difficult. But there may be other possibilities for grain transit: through Poland, through south of Ukraine.

The solution, proposed by António Guterres doesn't look good in the eyes of the EU. He can say that, but we have now the sanctions. So, I don't know what happens next, but this is what we, together with my colleagues, think about this.

— How about invoking article 33 of the ELO constitution? Can ILO impose sanctions against the regime in Belarus or it is too early to talk about it?

— What the article says is very clear. But Lukashenka makes his decrees and does not discuss them with trade unions. So, I guess, what he does is illegal, but he does it. People are thrown in the prison because the dog has white-red-white collar, or there is a little plate on a car. Free press is thrown out of Belarus. Lukashenka is a dictator.

In 2008, in Belarus, I was at a discussion with Ambassador of the Netherlands in Belarus and Belarusian minister of labor. It was a very open discussion. The minister was open, but Lukashenka is not open. The minister does not tell Lukashenka what is wrong and what is right, because if he does so, he will be in prison the next day.

It is management by fear. People have families. They have, brothers and sisters who have work, but who are all fired when they say something.

The people want changes, but a few people make that impossible. Putin said there are Nazis in Ukraine. I say the Nazi are himself and Lukashenka because of what these regimes do together to the poor peoples, that is what Nazis were doing in 1940s.

The real solution is to throw the dictator away together with Putin, and to do the same with people what around them who are even more dangerous. The changes must come from inside the country.

And then we can help with occupational health and safety organization, and politic and how to lead an organization as a trade union — knowledge is no problem.

— You've seen the dark side of the regime, and you've seen people who were not afraid, working with you. Which side will win in the end?

— Lukashenka has no vision. He has a vision for himself, but not a vision for the people.

I think, the normal people will win. Always there comes a time of freedom. The war in Ukraine is part of the steps to the democracy in Belarus. When Ukraine wins — then soldiers from Belarus fighting in Ukraine say, "Next what we do is Minsk." This is also what I think.

Lukashenka must go away. And then, maybe, I can work on new books on safety and training for the workers. I hope very much it will happen.

The workers in Belarus and the citizens in Belarus want the freedom to be who they want to be. That is possible in my country, in the democratic West. And i believe this is also what workers in Belarus want.

Everyone in the Netherlands takes it for granted that you return home safely after a working day. In Belarus is this an every day struggle. The regime in Belarus wants to keep the values of the past. But the people in Belarus want openness, freedom, innovation — values anchored in the present, and looking ahead to the future.

I will always fight for this because I cannot stand injustice.

Zyvie Belarus!

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