Bartosz Cichocki: Poles Regard Belarusians As Brothers

The priorities of the Polish policy in Belarus are protection of the interests of the Polish minority, security, growth of trade turnover and human rights.

Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs of Poland Bartosz Cichocki told this in an interview with Editor-in-Chief of Charter97.org website Natallia Radzina.

- Mr. Minister, I know that you worked in the legendary Polish editor’s office “KARTA”, as well as in the renown analytical center “Ośrodek Studiów Wschodnich”. How did you become a diplomat?

- It was Minister Witold Waszczykowski who offered me a job in the MFA, and Prime Minister Beata Szydło approved his suggestion.

Apparently, my experience of working in non-governmental organizations and expert centers was considered beneficial in terms of changes, which are subsequently being introduced by the government of the party Prawo i Sprawiedliwość, in particular, in the Polish diplomacy.

- The other day you conducted a meeting with the representatives of the Belarusian organizations in Poland. Was the meeting fruitful for you?

- Meetings with representatives of non-governmental organizations and independent personalities have become an integral element of every visit of members of the Foreign Ministry and Polish politicians in Minsk. Equally important are regular contacts with representatives of the Belarusian civil society outside of Belarus, which I personally and my staff keep.

This is an obligatory element of the dialogue that we are conducting with the Belarusian authorities. The political dialogue of capitals will not develop in isolation from the issues that the civil societies of both countries live in.

- What are the priorities of the Polish policy in Belarus today?

- The Polish policy with regard to Belarus assesses the whole spectrum of issues: bilateral relations, including protection of rights of the Polish minority, development of the relations with the European Union in the framework of the Eastern Partnership, a broad circle of security issues.

In the bilateral dimension we are trying to create favorable conditions for the growth of the trade turnover and investments. Last year, import and export reached USD 2,55 billion. We are looking for the spheres where the Polish experience of economic changes would be useful for Belarus, privatization is a good example.

It remains very important to increase the number of granted visas - last year our consulates in Belarus issued almost 419,000 visas. It should be noted that, despite the lack of information from our Belarusian partners as to when the agreement on a small border traffic will come into force, the Belarusian authorities facilitated the tourist movement. Poles willingly use this. We would like the citizens of Belarus to visit their Polish neighbors in the same way.

In addition, the last two years have shown the potential for cooperation between Polish and Belarusian local authorities and organizations.

We draw attention to the obligation of the Belarusian state to provide Belarusian Poles with access to Polish culture and education in Polish. We are trying to attract the authorities in Minsk to participate in the proposals of the Eastern Partnership, agreed at the November summit in Brussels: visa facilitation, rapprochement with the digital markets being created in the EU or major infrastructure projects.

In the long term, we propose to hold negotiations on a formal agreement. However, first we expect our Belarusian partners to adopt partnership priorities that will be the basis for further strengthening of relations. We are convinced that this is the best way to ensure respect for human rights and well-being.

In addition, we conduct difficult conversations about the deteriorating security situation in the region in connection with the aggression against Ukraine and the militarization of the Kaliningrad region. We explain to Belarusian partners why NATO is compelled to respond to the growing threat from Russia.

- In the latest years, we have observed regimes change and dictatorships collapse at the post-Soviet space. Georgia, Ukraine twice, now Armenia. How do you assess these processes?

- You unite many processes that took place at the post-Soviet space over the past 25 years, but they were not so uniquely connected with each other. The simplest answer to this question is, Poland takes its place among the sovereign, democratic states that enjoy the right to self-determination.

We believe that this is a universal right and we are ready to support peaceful changes in other countries - even have to do this, because we were supported in times of dictatorship. At the same time, we draw attention to the fact that systemic transformation is a long process, which, on the day of the removal of unjust, corrupt authorities, is just beginning and does not bring a momentary measurable improvement in life.

Sometimes you need to be prepared to defend the public choice of the path of development of your own state, even with weapons.

- Unfortunately, very often the situation in Belarus is assessed in the Polish media in a rather stereotypical way, the obsolete cliché “who if not Lukashenka”, which has long ceased to have anything to do with reality, is actively promoted, although the Belarusian dictator has long lost the support of the people and retains the power only by force. In your opinion, why is it happening? Poles and Belarusians are close peoples and could have known each other a little better.

- It is not my task to evaluate any statements that appear in our press. But I am glad that in Poland there is a great interest in Belarus, there is a heated, unconstrained discussion on the situation in your state and our bilateral relations. This is a confirmation that we regard Belarusians as brothers and wish you all the best.

Poles and Belarusians are actually close to each other - we lived in one state, we also suffered in the XX century, we have common historical heroes and common challenges ahead. In Belarus there is a Polish minority, in Poland - the Belarusian minority. It is necessary to further develop cooperation between individual regions of our countries, cities, public, cultural and sports organizations. You should use the richness of cross-border contacts. All this is our common, Polish-Belarusian task.

- During the latest NATO summit in Warsaw, a line of conflict with Russia was specified, Belarus is on that line. Polish experts and military men also many times told about the probability of the military threat from the side of Belarus, reminding that the Belarusian army is a part of the Russian one. How do you assess such probability?

- NATO does not draw the line of the conflict with Russia. We proposed cooperation back in the early 1990s. And our proposal remains in force. It was Russia that chose confrontation.

We are concerned about the increasing participation of Belarus in the military cooperation with Russia: both its depth and the directions it adopts. An expressive example of the Belarusian-Russian cooperation was, in particular, the West-2017 exercises, which aroused our doubts about the offensive scenario and significant scales. Nevertheless, we look forward to a dialogue with Belarus to dispel our doubts, above all at the best forum for this, which is the OSCE. We hope for the constructive participation of Minsk in the military dialogue, including transparency and building confidence and security.

- The construction of the first Nord Stream made the Russian aggression against Ukraine possible. Poland, being aware of all the threats, stands against the construction of the Nord Stream-2. Will this pipeline be built in the end?

- There should not be any, as it is built in violation of the rules that we all agreed on in the EU. There should not be any, because it will allow Gazprom to continue to apply discriminatory prices and other practices in violation of competition rules. The profit from sales of gas supplied by the Nord Stream will replenish the budget of the state, which uses military force, and impoverish the countries that are victims of this force.

In the worst case, Russia can cut off gas supplies to some states. The priority issue for the EU at the moment is the approval of amendments to the gas directive, which will clarify that the European rules should be applied for all gas pipelines, also outside the EU.

- In Poland, Belarus, Ukraine the idea of the union between the Intermarium states is actively discussed. What does it mean for Poland – just an idea, or probable concrete implementation? Are Belarus and Ukraine seen as a part of this project?

- You probably mean the “Three Seas” initiative, which is often confused with the idea of the Intermarium, put forward by Józef Piłsudski in the time of the II Rzecz Pospolita. The “Three Seas” initiative from the very beginning was aimed at increasing the efficiency of the functioning of the European market at the territory of the EU, which is home to almost 112 million citizens. We want to achieve this by improving transport, through infrastructure investments, through economic integration, cooperation in the field of cyberspace. Therefore, this initiative was addressed primarily to EU member states. It, certainly, is not directed against someone, and certainly not against any of our neighbors.

This initiative is connected with the deepening of integration even in those sectors and areas in which the EU neighbors have concluded agreements with other organizations. An example is the economy: Belarus, as a member of the Eurasian Economic Union, is simultaneously interested in cooperation with the European Union.

The “Three Seas” initiative could become an interesting laboratory in this context. After all, stronger integration of the markets of the EU member states neighboring Ukraine and Belarus will affect neighboring countries and should be beneficial for them, both economically and in terms of stability.